radar in russia as a possible religious extremist as early as 2011. reportedly russian intelligence intercepted a phone conversation between the mother and her son, tamerlan, that is being described as, quote, radical. american investigators were never told of these secret recordings at the time and the feds say moscow never followed through on repeated f.b.i. requests for more information and that is why the f.b.i. is now saying it closed its case when it did not find anything per student to its own -- pursuant to its own investigation of tamerlan tsarnaev. catherine herridge joins us live now from washington. >> thank you. a short time ago, the white house asked whether it's concerned that the russians did not provide everything he would on tamerlan tsarnaev and miss mother before the attacks. he was pushed to explain whether the president is comfortable

with the information. here is jay carney. sounds bite is not there. we'll bring it to you when we can. fox news is told the mother was added to a government database 18 months before the boston attacks. both mother and oldest son, the f.b.i. and c.i.a. were contacted in 2011 that tamerlan was a believer in radical islam and was intent to travel overseas to join an extremist group. we have a photo which predates the asylum -- bid for political asylum by the family. you can see the mother there sort of in the more western or secular leaning position. this again is before 2002. in september 2011, tamerlan was added to the tied database from the database that the more specific no fly list and terrorist watch list are pulled. there was no derogatory information about the family at that time, including the older

son. the ranking member of the house intelligence committee says the russians should provide everything they have as the investigation widens. fox was first to report on friday on your broadcast the third party involvement has not been ruled out. >> there is a lot we don't know. that's why many say the russians need to step up to the plate here and provide us better information. i think they have information that would be incredibly helpful that they haven't provided yet. there are persons of interest in the united states. we're looking at phone calls before and after the bombing. this type of investigation. but i agree with mike also, the real test of whether he was radicalized or not or where he was radicalized is russia. >> the two weeks after the bombings, what's clear is that the investigative interest in the mother is really intensifying. >> megyn: all right. thanks so much. the attorney general, eric holder, seems to be suggesting that it was all this judge in boston who decided to interrupt the f.b.i. questioning of the surviving suspect by reading him

hits mirandaights that led to him stopping his cooperation with the authorities, according to an f.b.i. briefing provided last week. and the f.b.i. started to complain that its interrogation was cut short without its consent. the house intelligence committee has asked the attorney general for an explanation as to how this could have happened, how they say they weren't consulted about where they were, what kind of valuable intel they were getting before this criminal complaint was filed and a manual straight judge wold in and read the guy his miranda rights. how could that be and how is eric holder now saying everything was fine, everything is a okay when even he said this weekend that the f.b.i. was supposed to have in his view, this controversy -- there is controversy it -- 48 hours to question the guy and we know they were cut off 16 hours into it? how can he pin it on some magistrate judge? they're kind of down here.

it's not even an actual district court judge. this magistrate judge decided this would end? not exactly. we're going to take a closer look at that in our next hour. as this investigation unfolds, we are also hearing new reports that the federal government wants more wire tap capabilities. a task force is working on a bill that would allow intel agents the ability to monitor electronic communications in real time. did you know they don't have that in many instances now? in other words, if they want to tap into what you're looking at on google or e-mails, it's a lot harder than you night think. but this bill could change all of that. they want to see your instant messaging? maybe they can. if he want they want to intercept an e-mail you just sent, maybe they can. right now the technology is not there. now this new bill would change all that. it but it comes as a new fox news poll shows that for the first time since the 9-11 terrorist attacks, a majority of americans, 45%, well, versus the

43% who declined, fear the government taking away their personal freedoms more than they fear terrorism. chris is our fox news digital politician here on fox news.com. it's not a majority. it's just that more americans fear it than want it. fear government in interference with their lives versus their, you know, fears about terrorism. put that poll back up before we got to chris. look at the difference. october 2011 -- i'm sorry, 2001, right after 9-11. 70% said they would be willing to give up some personal freedom to reduce the threat of terrorism versus 20% who said no. look at that. 71%. we were scared. we were scared with good reason, because 3,000 americans had just been killed for showing up to work. but today two weeks after a different kind of terrorist attack, they feel very differently, chris. your thoughts on it.

>> well, think about this, another thing that's occurred over that same span of time is that people's estimation and trust in the government in general has gone way down. democrats increasingly distrust the government. republicans generally don't trust the government. that's kind of their bag. but democrats increasingly distrust the government. there is a broadening sense that federal government, it doesn't do the right thing all of the time or even most of the time and empowering the federal government with the ability to look at your instant messaging or your gchat or whatever it is, probably will cause some anxiety. even that suggestion from the f.b.i. will probably cause anxiety from people who look at the internet as sort of the last free space. >> megyn: i didn't realize that if the government wants to spy on my, i don't know, private e-mail conversation, it might not be able to right now because

these private internet service providers have not set up their systems in a way that would allow a wire tap to get into them. and one of the push-- now the f.b.i. wants to change all that. that's the proposal that they're debating on capitol hill. should we allow it? but one of the objections in response has been, wiring in that capability will only increase the likelihood that somebody is going to hack in and start reading my e-mails or your e-mails or our viewers' e-mails who isn't the f.b.i., who doesn't have a warrant and do we really want to sacrifice that protection that gmail and hotmail and all these other provided us just so that the feds can get a look, pursuant to a warrant at the e-mail of people who are suspected bad guys? >> yeah. these companies are already sending the warning that if the federal government makes them create this trap door action then you may see these operations move overseas, that you may see these companies --

'cause right now if they say no to the federal government, they go into a contempt hearing and it goes into court and nothing comes of it. what this would do is create a fast track fine program to slap these companies with fines right away if they weren't doing it. you see companies saying we'll move them overseas where we don't have to deal with this because if we do, not only are we facing these fines, but potential lawsuits if we build a trap door that then is later exploited by a bad guy to do something bad to one of our customers. so we're not interested i that very much, mr. f.b.i. >> megyn: you hear the feds making the other argument which is, look, these wire taps we get are only so useful in modern day america where very few of the conversations we're allowed to tap, if we have a warrant like land line conversations are useful. we need to get into on-line chat. we need to get into instant messages. people have telephone conversations over the internet

right now that the feds cannot necessarily access and they're just saying, we want the law updated to reflect modern day american society, but there will be pushback, especially given the way that poll shows americans feel. chris, i'll give you the last word. >> the battle for internet safety security versus independence, versus freedom is going to be the dominant battle of the decade to come and as you point out, technology changes so fast, it's hard for the feds to keep up with this stuff and about the time they get this law fought through, they'll say actually what we need is this. and they will keep staggering forward on this. it's going to be tough stuff. >> megyn: wow. chris, thank you. >> you bet. >> megyn: we are tracking a developing story in california where an entire town is virtually on lockdown as police launch a massive search for the person who killed an eight-year-old girl inside her northern california home. trace gallagher has the latest live in los angeles.

trace? >> it happened in valley springs, a rural town in the sierra foothills 100 miles reaction of san francisco. the sheriff says because this area is so remote, it makes it very difficult to search there. they've been going house to house, as well as searching in attics and sheds. eight-year-old leila fowler was found by her 12-year-old brother. she had been stabbed multiple times and later died. the brother also saw the suspect, who he describes as a muscular man, about six feet tall, either white or latino, with long gray hair and we're told a search of the victim's house did result in finding some key evidence. listen. >> we did collect some fingerprints during that search and we also collected what we believe to be dna. those prints and that dna will hopefully be processed within the next week. >> as you might imagine in any investigation, the 12-year-old brother is being questioned. he is not a suspect. at the time of the attack, leila's parents were at a public

function nearby. this is a town of 45,000, or a county of 45,000. they've averaged one murder a year over the past four years. the murder rate, extraordinarily low, which is why the neighbors, as you might imagine, are stunned. >> never worried about closing our windows or locking our doors. this is big. >> the firemen, we know the chaplain, we know each other's families. we've grown up together, so yes. pretty devastating for everybody. >> i just hope they catch him so everybody can, like, breathe a little bit. >> very much an all hands on deck situation in northern california. the schools, the school buses also getting added protection today. they've got three county sheriff's departments working on this, as well as the california highway patrol looking for this suspect, megyn. >> megyn: that poor child. that beautiful picture. trace, thank you. there was a huge outcry last

week over president obama's health care overhaul after a washington political web site broke the story that congress was trying to negotiate some sort of elimination and for many of its top staffers. in other words, you can go on the health care exchanges, but not the congressional staffers. no way. now we're told that deal is dead. but lou dobbs is next to explain why this is still such a big issue and whether congress got caught and that's why this thing died. we'll talk about it next. and there is a growing grew of lawmakers convinced the feds are buying up more bullets than they need in what could be an effort to limit the ammunition available to average americans. we'll show you today what is being done about that. plus, in the days after the terrorist attack that killed four americans at our consulate in libya on 9-11 of last year, the president promised, quote, to bring those responsible for benghazi to justice. more than six months and a massive investigation later, we still don't know the whole

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>> megyn: there was a huge outcry last week over president obama's health care overhaul when the politico web site ran a story under the headline, ," lawmakers aides may get obamacare exemption." then there were denials and explanations. now it appears the deal is dead in the wake of that publicity, but still many are wondering what this says about the controversial law. lou dobbs is the host of "lou dobbs tonight" on the "fox business" network. the way they discussed it in the politico column was obamacare for thee but not for me, as according to that report, these lawmakers on capitol hill were scrambling to find a way to get themselves and at least their top aides out of the obamacare

mandate and just back on sort of regular federally sponsored -- >> plain old souper duper care. >> megyn: it's amazing what a little sunlight will do. >> a little sunlight, is little sunshine is a great disinfectant. >> megyn: now they're saying the talks are dead. >> i don't believe that either. >> megyn: you don't? >> i really don't because they lied all the way through. harry reid lied straight to the american people's faces. it's not the first time, of course, but this time he was contradicted and found out and revealed by the second most powerful democrat on capitol hill, that is nancy pelosi! just after he and steny hoyer denied there were ever any talks, of course there were talks about this. they were moving forward. and by the way, this prompted speaker boehner to say no, no, we wouldn't have it any other way than all of us in this thing together. >> megyn: boehner has been saying, i want -- yes, i want them to be exempted.

i want everyone to be exempted. i want you to be exempted. i don't have anybody to have to go under obamacare. >> gets kind of crowded when we look at the carveouts and exemptions that president obama has provided, he has given it to religious groups, the catholic church included, after a little contra temt there. welfare recipients are exempted. they just get medicaid. >> megyn: that's what they're calling these, medicaid plus, which is one of the reasons people don't want to go on it. it doesn't sound like something that improves what they have. >> illegal immigrants of course get an exemption. labor unions, of course. they've worked too hard for this president to have to do anything, you know, like join the rest of america. so they get an elimination. and the president's 1200 favorite business groups and businesses. >> megyn: who is left? we should still left who is left in obamacare? >> the retched middle class. the filthy, imaboved in this

country who work for a living and pay their taxes and believe in the american dream. you know, the chumps. the folks who actually make the country work. those are the folks who get to play. >> megyn: and the young people, the young people -- >> they don't -- >> megyn: the young, healthy people have to get obamacare insurance otherwise the whole thing fails. >> the ones who need it have to pay up. the chairman of the house and ways committee on friday did the smartest thing that has been done in the house of representatives in ages. he said we're going to have legislation that requires all federal employees to put away all the fancy programs, all this other stuff, i don't care whether you're a congress, senator or president, you're going to be in the exchange program under obamacare. now, there is a little problem with that. >> megyn: hasn't the president already said he'd do that? >> yeah, but it doesn't matter whether he says he'll do it because he already is provided the world's greatest medical care no matter what. >> megyn: no one is asking to see his insurance card when he

calls up and says i have a problem. >> where is that card? we can't really talk to you until then. that was pure politics and nonsense. dave can't's proposal is great stuff because now you've got pelosi saying everybody should be in it together. where are they going to find their defense now. let there be equity in all things. >> megyn: i want to ask you the bigger picture on this law. >> how big do you want to go? >> megyn: we've heard reports that -- we know that the health fitness state run exchanges, now the deadline has been pushed way back, that they're having lots of problems with those, that the people who are going to be in the preexisting condition pool that they would get immediately, those preexisting conditions would start to get coverage, they reached their max and shut enrollment down. >> billions and billions of dollars. >> megyn: now we had a report that the people were supposed to be overseeing like what care -- >> the independent payment advisory board.

>> megyn: that's been pushed book as well. right now they don't know who is going to be decide building you're going to get paid or not. is it going to be kathleen sebelius, a woman without a medical degree. the thing is, there are lots of problems. is there any momentum building behind actually repealing this thing or somehow -- >> i hope the republicans don't tire us once again with their talks of repealing it. they've tried to do so i think 30 times with only control of the house. the assurance that the senate will not go along nor the president sign it, the fact is that momentum here is for a plan that is falling apart. instead of the independent payment advisory board, a death panel, we now have a death secretary because that power deinvolves to the secretary of health and human services, unless obama comes up with somebody that can run a government, they're in big, big trouble. >> megyn: the reports are -- coming out every day. but there has been real problems with this.

thank you. we're getting a look showing an attack on christians in cairo's biggest church. we'll see if anything is being done after calls to protect these christians living in egypt [ kate ] many women may not be absorbing the calcium they take

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>> megyn: developing story out of mississippi where the new suspect in the ricinnen mail attack has made his first court appearance. 41-year-old everett dutschke is accused of sending poison-laced letters to president obama, a senator and a state judge. he was arrested early saturday after federal authorities cleared another mississippi man. remember the elvis impersonator? they say that man was set up by this man. john roberts live outside of u.s. district court in oxford. i have to tell you, we cover a lot of cases on this show. i find this one rivetting.

i can't believe my lying eyes, as the developments occur in this case every day. >> megyn, if you were to write this story, nobody would believe it 'cause there were so many twists and turns. the latest, 41-year-old james everett dutschke, one time republican candidate for state office out of tupelo appearing to answer charges of making stockpiling, and about to use a biological weapon. we were sitting right behind him as he read the charges against him in a long document. we saw him shaking his head a few times. he really couldn't believe what he's been facing because he has been protesting his innocence all the way through this. and the f.b.i. and the u.s. attorney's office after making what appeared to be a big mistake, arresting, charging and having to release a fellow named kevin curtis last week, do believe they have their man this time. they conducted extensive searches of dutchy's home, his martial-arts studio, two vehicles and they do believe that this time around they have put the right person in jail,

although when i put that question to dutschke's attorney, i said, did they make another mistake? he said to me, no comment. he really hasn't had much chance to actually sit down and talk with his client. he's a public defender appointed over the weekend. the big question in all of this, why would dutschke do something like this, what alleged to have been done is sending these letters to the president, senator roger wicker and judge in tupelo. if you believe the attorneys for the initial suspect, kevin curtis, this wasn't really some antigovernment attack. this may have been a feud that got out of control that dutschke wanted to make sure kevin curtis was like out of the picture, putting him in jail would be the best way to do it. so according to his attorneys, this is kevin curtis' attorneys, he may have tried to frame him. one thing that's interesting is that the charges that dutschke is facing, more serious than the charges that were leveled against kevin curtis. we do not know if the f.b.i. actually found something, the indictment has been sealed.

but we hope to see it open later on today or early tomorrow. >> megyn: we've never seen anything like this in recent memory, anyway. i'm so angry at my neighbor with whom i've been feuding that i'm going to attempt to kill three lawmakers, including the president of the united states in that guy's name and that will really show the neighbor. >> this thing is intertwined in so many ways, you can't even begin to explain it. >> megyn: we are going to try, though. we're going to give it a try. thank you. we'll talk about whether, could this guy be issue did did she could he take advantage of an insanity advantage? i was so ticked off at the neighbor, i had to try to kill the president of the united states. um, he claims he's a member of the mensa. we're going to look into that with kelly's court. we're also going to ask if there is any chance of a conviction against this man when they already arrested another man and let the charges go. coming up in washington, new questions today about whether

american taxpayers are providing -- well, we are -- cigarettes and ipads to some families and whether we need to stop doing that under food stamp reform. and a man boarded a commercial aircraft last week and kept repeating the word bomb until he was ordered off. trace reports on the second guessing, however in this one and why the pilot and the crew may have made the wrong call. >> i mean, they stood me out in front of everyone and told me like i'm in kindergarten, that i'm not allowed to go on the plane

i.

>> megyn: we are watching a story develop in michigan where a disappearance is getting national attention. 25-year-old jessica vanished from the gas station where she worked in norton shores. her mother says she was always concerned about her daughter working the late night shift alone. a customer calling 911 friday night to report no employees were standing at the station. police arrived to find her purse and her car left behind. investigators believe she was kidnapped. they're asking anyone with information to come forward. >> make no mistake, we will get to the bottom of this and we will find out who did this. we'll find out why this -- they did this.

any responsible individuals, any responsible groups will feel the full weight of justice. >> megyn: that was president obama in the hours after the boston marathon bombing. promising to find answers. as we learn more about the suspects and their activities before this attack, some tough questions are coming up, including whether the intel community dropped the ball here and whether the justice community dropped the ball in terminating this interrogation while valuable information was being given up. we're told that probably stopped. that narrative, those facts now have some suggesting that the boston investigation could possibly go the way of benghazi. this headline in the san francisco chronicle lays it out. then too, the president vowed swift justice. you can see, they write, will boston probe falter like benghazi? seven months after benghazi, authorities no no closer to an arrest or justice in that case. joining me, brad blakeman,

former deputy assistant to president bush. and simon, former advisor to president clinton. what notable difference between benghazi and boston is a week after boston, we found at least two of the guys who did it. they appear to be the two main suspects, we don't know. we've had several top lawmakers say there are other persons of interest in the boston case. but we've got two guys. that's a heck of a lot farther than we've come in benghazi, brad. >> that's true. a lot of the reason why we got where we were in boston with the suspects is because the american people helped in that investigation and we were able to use the good efforts of local law enforcement to capture these two individuals, unlike benghazi where the president did not get the directive for the f.b.i. to move in and even come to the scene. the scene was compromised as we know in benghazi by a reporter who picked up the diary, by people who came in to the crime scene and were able to damage

evidence there. so there is no suspects in benghazi caught today. the trail is cold. the government has not given us the kind of information that they should have given us, whether it was a terrorist attack or not. the president refused to tell us what he believed it to be when we knew what it was. so i think in this case, in boston the reason why we got so far is the american people help if that and we are thwarted in benghazi because our federal government didn't match their rhetoric that they wanted months before presidential campaign, it didn't match the campaign's theme that terrorism somehow was waning. >> megyn: and opportunities escaped us as a result. i want to ask you, simon, because the president promised the following in the days after the benghazi terrorist attack on 9-11. listen. >> make no mistake, we will work with the libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people. >> megyn: where is that justice?

>> megyn, i think as we learned in both of the last administrations, when these kind of attacks happen overseas or involve foreign folks, i mean, look, it took the bush administration tried for seven years to get bin laden and never got him. and -- >> megyn: they got a whole lot of people around him. >> they did. but let's be clear that the mastermind of that was never captured by the previous administration in seven years. >> megyn: who would we have gotten in benghazi. >> it wasn't for lack of trying. >> to argue that the administration isn't trying is ridiculous, right? this administration has been very aggressive at taking out high level al-qaeda operatives. al-qaeda is significantly weakened today. >> megyn: but, but -- i'm going to let you finish, but it doesn't seem like brad is suggesting or the chronicle or this piece posted today, san francisco chronicle, no one seems to be suggesting they're not trying. they seem to be suggesting they're not very good. they're not doing a very good job. >> megyn, i just said that this

is hard. this happened in a foreign country that's in a chaotic place, we weren't really sure who really got it done. i think they are working very hard. of course, this administration, the intelligence community, defense department, are work hard to bring justice. why would there be any action taken other than that, other than wanting to go get the bad guys? we've been doing a pretty good job. i want to give credit to the bush administration and the obama administration. one of the reasons there is so much news around these things is there haven't been that many terrorist attacks since 9-11. our guys for the most part have done a pretty good job and certainly we have to learn from the mistake that remain in both cases and continue to improve. >> megyn: unfortunately there has been several attempts. the christmas day bomber over detroit, the times square bomber here in new york. they were within inches of accomplishing what they wanted to accomplish. but their bombs failed. it wasn't like we stopped them. it was their bombs failed. but brad, can you speak to

simon's point of why wouldn't they try in benghazi? >> well, after the benghazi attack, it didn't meet the campaign receipt iraqi that somehow that terrorism was on the run and terrorism was not the threat it once was. it didn't meet their political advancement two months before a campaign. >> megyn: what about boston? do you see the motivation as different? >> yeah. because the federal government has been embarrassed by dropping the ball on the twowe know thatr was pinged several times, and i'm using pinged because that's the language of homeland security -- when he came back and forth from chechnya after they were given warnings by the russian government that he's been radicalized. so the government dropped the ball. the government's has been embarrassed while local officials have been heralded, including the f.b.i. has been embarrassed and the president wanted it to go away. so what did they do? they had a magistrate, who is nothing more than a glorified

clerk, if they have us believe he made this decision, a big decision like that to make the suspect mirandized, therefore, he wouldn't be available for any further questioning when the f.b.i. was rocked on its heels? the local f.b.i. office when they said they had other questions to ask this guy. they were getting information. >> megyn: that's where people are going -- give you the last word on that, simon. we're going to talk about this in our next hour. that they filed the criminal complaint when they did, before the suspect had even been released from the hospital, was fully capable of communicating and answering all questions the f.b.i. wanted. no one forced the feds to go in there and file the criminal complaint that day. some are asking whether here we go again. we're so determined on the criminal justice system and so not focused on national security. >> megyn, you're a lawyer and you know probably more about this than i do, but you know the national security exemption that was implemented by the administration lasted for what, five days? i mean, and that's a long time.

>> megyn: you talking about the public safety exemption. >> he wasn't read his mirandized. >> megyn: of when the criminal complaint was filed. >> but they were already talking to him. they were already -- >> megyn: no, no. there was 15 hours of interrogation, according to the f.b.i 16 hours of interrogation. >> but it took place over five days. >> megyn: no, it didn't. >> are you sure? >> megyn: he was in and out of the hospital. he was in and out of doctors' care. he was in and out of consciousness and what they're saying is that in total, there were 16 hours of interrogation where this man was able to speak, to communicate, writing, speaking. >> but over a five-day period. >> megyn: he got taken into the hospital on friday night. the criminal complaint got filed on sunday. and the magistrate judge showed up on monday. >> monday. so four days. then four days. >> no. >> megyn: no, it's not four days. >> friday to monday. >> megyn: no. that math doesn't add up. but go ahead.

>> okay. we'll finish up. look, i think this was a u.s. citizen on u.s. soil and clearly the administration ask the magistrate, right, i'm assuming they spoke to one another at some point, made a decision to move ahead and offer up the mirandized. i think it was the right decision to make. i think we were really pushing the envelope on this and i know this is going to get debated, but i think it was the right course when dealing with american citizens on our soil with our laws here. >> megyn: there are a lot of people who feel that way. we'll talk about it more on our next hour. thank you both so much for being here. we'll play you what eric holder said to another news network that said this. it's already raising eyebrows. we're getting a first look at video showing an attack on christians at cairo's biggest church. up next, who is to blame for these attacks and are complaints from america making any difference? supposed to be a whole new world once we had regime change in egypt and the arab spring. they say it's gotten worse for

christians over there. what are we doing about it? and a group of lawmakers convinced that the feds are buying up more bullets than they need. in what could be an effort to limit the ammo available to average americans. we'll show you what's being done today to stop that okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle --

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>> megyn: we are getting our first look at dramatic video showing an attack on christians at cairo's biggest church. it appears to show -- watch this -- police officers standing

by as several attackers launch a deadly assault on worshipers attend ago memorial service. at a coptic christian cathedral. in a different video of the same incident, watch, you can see a man in a green shirt as he carries out an attack and then runs for cover behind one of the police officers. in another shot, a police officer can be seen actually helping a gunman in a yellow shirt as he prepares to take aim at a courtyard full of mourners. when it was done, at least one person was dead. more than 80 others hurt. alicia is the editor of middle east christian news agency. she first obtained this video and bridget gabial is america acts. alicia, there has been controversy about what happened at this mosque. now the video appears to show to the police helping or at least standing by as these attacks unfolded. can you give us some color on this? >> thank you for having me. yeah. the controversy came about

because when it occurred, there wasn't much video on the ground and afterwards, the interior ministry actually tried to blame the coptic protesters that they said were there, were actually attending the funeral and said they attacked the central security forces first. however, what you see from the video is you have unidentified men throwing stones, throwing molatov cocktails, actually firing at the crowd within the precinct of the cathedral, and additionally, you have the security forces standing by and doing absolutely nothing except at one point and then another, they fired tear gas into the cathedral. >> megyn: they do this with impunity, there have been reports for a long time now, even preceding morsi, under hosni mubarak, but they seem to have gotten worse since morsi about the cops not helping if the victims are christians and saying, look, if you complain, you're only going to get it worse. so you got to basically take it if you're a christian.

>> definitely. there has been such a lack of protection for christian buildings and christian-owned businesses throughout egypt. the sectarian incident and violence against christians has definitely increased since even the revolution. and afterwards, what happens is they have what they call reconciliation meetings which are held with religious leaders and local police forces which do nothing but end up blaming the victims where usually christians for what occurred and giving whoever is attacking the christians whatever they wanted. they always get their way at the end of the day. >> megyn: there are real concerns that some of these christians are going to wind up leaving egypt and that's been an important group for america to have there and that we're going to see even more of a potential theocracn. it seems like things are getting worse by the day for christians. >> they are. all throughout the middle east. and not only in egypt, but look

what happened if iraq after we basically liberated iraq from saddam hussein. over half a million christians left iraq. we're going to see the same exodus happening in egypt right now and they're trying. we're seeing the same thing happen in syria. the christian churches are being attacked in syria and this is why the christians want assad to stay in power. and to think that we are helping these governments come to power, like the muslim brotherhood in egypt, or the new government in iraq. we are allowing this to continue, happening to the christians. it's an outrage under our watch. >> megyn: it was never supposed to happen this way, bridget. we were told it was going to be different an the arab spring. as it turns out, not so much. >> not so much. it's a lie. things are getting worse because the islamists are feeling empowered. they are telling the christians this is now an islamic nation. you need to get out of here. we are seeing the signs and the quotes all overt islamic world. first comes saturday, then comes sunday. they're trying to expel the christians and threatening them

with death. >> megyn: wow. thank you both so much. we appreciate it. up next, a flight crew removes a passenger for repeating the word bomb over and over. why they may have made the wrone call.

>> megyn: bizarre story out of washington, d.c. where some second guessing is going on after a man is kicked often of a flight for saying the word bomb. trace gallagher has the story. trace? >> the man's name is michael doyle, planning to travel from dc to san juan, puerto rico with a friend. he has turret. so they called ahead and notified both jetblue and tsa that michael has turrets and prone to these so-called ticking. that's where sufferers have frequent outbursts. listen to michael now. >> with all the stuff in the news about the boston bombings

and stuff, started picking bomb because that -- when i get nervous and anything on my mind will come out. and the things you're not supposed to say. >> you heard him say when he gets nervous, listen now to an interview he did with gma where you could hearly hear -- issue actually hear the ticking. >> i probably said bomb, bomb about 100 times in that terminal and through tsa. >> so he kept saying bomb, but he went through tsa with no problems. he got to the jetblue grate still saying bomb and right before he was about to board the pilot told him to stop everything. here is michael. >> i mean, they stood me out in front of everyone and told me like i'm in kindergarten that i'm not allowed to go on the plane. >> experts say the big misconception about turret's

patients is they can stop these outbursts whenever they want. it's kind of like sneezing, it's involuntary. jetblue issued a statement saying, quoting, after further investigation, the situation was deemed innocuous and the customer was offered accommodation on the next flight. doyle says that does not make up for the embarrassment that he suffered. >> megyn: wow. all right. thank you. attorney general eric holder this weekend appearing to side step responsibility to cut short the interrogation of the suspected bombing suspect. plus, a group of lawmakers saying is a conspiracy to restrict ammo to you.

>> megyn: fox news alert. new questions about whether the feds could be considering charges for the mother of the suspected boston bombers. welcome to a brand-new hour of "america live." i'm megyn kelly. she drew increased attention after the feds say russian authorities revealed they had intercepted her phone calls. this is one of the reasons why they called attention to the son back in 2011. in one of them, she's said to have spoken about jihad with that older son, tamerlan. we reported to you thursday morning right here that she sent text messages to a family member in russia as early as 2011 saying tamerlan has been

radicalized. he is believed to have been one of the bombers. two weeks ago today. even congressman mike mccall, who chairs the homeland security committee is calling the mother, quote, a person of interest. so what exactly does that mean now? lis wiehl, could she face charges as what? >> first of all, the two phone calls are probably not enough. that's all we have now on the text. >> megyn: she knows he's a jihadi, right ready to die for . >> that's probably not enough. but if she had took a step in the conspiracy, then she would be a co-conspirator looking at the exact same charges as her now living son, exact same thing. or they could be an accomplice or accomplice after the fact. they're different gradations of accomplice, first degree and second degree. >> megyn: you must knowingly assist another in committing a crime, so she would have to know he was committing a crime. >> or knowingly. right.

and take that step, again, as a conspirator. accomplice and conspirator, are pretty much the same thing. charged in different ways. but if she took that step, she did something, in other words, did she fund him somehow? did she knowingly fund the terrorism act? did she do something that would support, that would take that extra step rather than just phone calls from a mother to a son saying, oh, isn't jihad wonderful. that in itself is not enough. >> megyn: what about now, okay, she married into this family that was from chechnya. she's from a different area in dagestan. her native village is apparently a big, big radical islam hotbed. >> right. >> megyn: so if she had any knowledge that that's where he went, that that's where he trained and this is speculation right now, but they seem to be pulling it all together -- and knew that he was training for jihad, not just that he had been radicalized, but he was training for jihad, does that change the scenario? >> i think it could. but again, she's got to have done something other than just

stayed silent. if he called her and said, i am going to do this two mondays ago and bring these bombs, i'm giving you exact screen plays, then that's different. but if it's just bragging or jihad, i think this is wonderful, isn't that great, son? that's not enough. but going forward, the f.b.i. is going to be looking at is did she do something? did she do something more than just have a telephone conversation? if she did, then she's looking at charges. but then there is a problem, even if we do charge her, the united states charges her, there is no extradition treaty between the u.s. and russia. no bilateral extradition. the russian constitution says it is illegal in russia to send a russian citizen to the u.s. to face criminal charges. well, she didn't give up her russian citizenship. she was naturalized in the u.s. -- >> megyn: phone we want to charge her, we're not getting her. this raises a question about whether she should be treated more as a terrorist suspect then

as a criminal justice suspect. when we killed those who aid the terrorists on 9-11, we don't go through these inquiries. we don't do that. >> exactly. >> megyn: you aided bin laden, you die. this is a different scenario all together. >> she could be looking at army combatant status because she's not here. if she did not do it on american soil, it favors her to be an enemy combatant rather than the son -- >> megyn: she may be worse off than her son. >> exactly. the sons were here, grown here. u.s. citizens. >> megyn: one other question, the wife of tamerlan tsarnaev who is an american citizen. one of his ex-girlfriends, tamerlan tsarnaev's is speaking out and she is saying that he pushed her to convert to islam as well, that she wound up wearing a hijab at his request, he started talking about how much he hated america and americans. it's hard to believe did he that with an ex-girlfriend that he

want already talking to other people and he wasn't doing the same thing with the wife. who now is like -- >> didn't know anything. >> megyn: right. i was working all the time. do you think the feds are taking a serious look at her? >> absolutely, who did live with him. you have a child by this woman and he's talking to girlfriends. he's not talking to the wife? this makes no sense to me. just from a practical standpoint. absolutely they're looking at her. >> megyn: thank you so much. got it. speaking of dzhokhar tsarnaev, his new digs at a federal prison hospital, a far cry from the college dorm where he used to party. some say he was a big pot head, that he was smoking pot every day. not so much anymore. the feds say he's in a ten by ten foot cell behind a sealed door with a slot for food and observation. no tv, but he is allowed access to books. video cameras, recording his every move, 24/7. and it cost around 157 bucks for each inmate per day. he should enjoy those reading

materials while the people he killed are wondering how they'll ever walk again. the people he maimed are wondering how they'll walk again and how little martin richard's family are wondering how they'll move on. we talk about the conditions he's suffering in prison. he murdered these people, maimed these others. does anyone really care? minutes from how, the growing controversy over the decision to read that bombing suspect his miranda rights 16 hours into the f.b.i.'s interrogation of him. the f.b.i. saying valuable intel was left on the floor. this weekend attorney general eric holder spoke out about this and wait until you hear what he is saying and who he is placing the responsibility for the decision to read that suspect the miranda rights and whether he believes this was appropriately handled. we're going to bring it to you and have a fair and balanced debate coming up in moments. fox news alert. closing arguments underway in the controversial case involving a philadelphia abortion doctor

charged with several counts of murder. but lawyers for dr. gosnell insist his clinic was not a house of horrors despite repeated witness testimony in which they described something very, very different from what dr. gosnell's lawyer is saying. shannon bream is live. >> the defense team wrapped up its portion of the closing arguments. there is a recess underway before the prosecution gets back to the jurors. there has been lot of discussion about exactly what happened inside that clinic and jurors will soon have their own decisions ahead of them. for years dr. kermit gosnell ran a very successful abortion clinic in west philadelphia, so successful, that one of the witnesses who also worked there and is now himself facing jail time said it was, quote, rain fetuses, even if that is accurate, gosnell's attorney reminded jurors this case is not about whether or not he was an abortion doctor, which is legal,

but about whether or not gosnell committed murder. mcmahon said in his entire career, he's never seen a presumption of innocence trampled upon the way it has been in this case. he also told jurors that about witness testimony, the babies were born alive in his clinic and then killed, mcmahon said this, quote, if you think that baby was alive, it might have been alive, it could have been alive, that's reasonable doubt. we don't convict people on maybes, could bees. i think sos. if you do, you are violating your oath. reminding them if they have a doubt, they can't convict. pro-life advocates are also keeping a very close eye on this case, holding a prayer vigil outside the courthouse and urging others to pray for the juries. they say the case has become ground zero for the antiabortion case in america. he still faces four first degree murder charges. if he's convicted on any, he could face the death penalty. again. the defense done with its

closing arguments. we think the jury will get it tomorrow. >> megyn: all right. thank you. up next, republicans are trying to block folks from using food stamps for things like liquor. we'll tell you how they do that, ipads and cigarettes. democrats are asking why the gop wants to hurt children? that's next. plus, a growing number of lawmakers convinced the feds are buying up more bullets than they need. we'll show you why they think that's happening and what they're doing to stop it. the feds were quick to arrest a suspect after someone sent letters to someone laced with ricin to the president, senator and court judge and they were almost as quick to let him go and arrest another guy. but will they have problems making their current case given the fact that they already arrested and released someone else? >> my family knows i don't have anything to do with this. the people that actually know me know i don't have anything to do with this. and quite frankly, the people

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♪

>> megyn: we are watching an eye vent with president obama at the white house right now. he is naming the mayor of charlotte, north carolina, a beautiful town, as his pick to be the next secretary of transportation. a white house official tells fox that anthony fox was tapped for the job in part because he has successfully overseen a rapid growth in his city's infrastructure since becoming mayor in 2009. if you would like to, you can watch that teaming live on foxnews.com. your other news source on capitol hill, republicans senators say they can save taxpayers $30 billion by cutting what they call waste and fraud from the food stamp program. they want to block the reported purchases of things like cigarettes, liquor, and ipads to which some democrats are now accusing the gop of wanting to, quote, hurt our kids.

mike emmanuel has more. mike? >> hi. the republican lawmakers behind this legislation want to take a closer look at the explosion in the number of people receiving food stamps, nearly 16 million people added in recent years and the growth and the amount of spending on the program. they are argue if you cut waste, fraud and abuse, it will preserve the assistance for those would really need the help, though south dakota senator acknowledges it won't be easy because he says some lawmakers don't like cutting spending of any kind. >> hopefully there is enough people on both sides of the aisle who recognize that we have a responsibility to the american taxpayer and the american people. they're the people who are paying the bills for this, and if there are programs that are being taken advantage of, that are being abused, that are being misused, we ought -- we're responsible to tighten that up. so i'm hoping we'll be able to find some democrat support for this idea. >> lawmakers estimate projected spending on food stamps will cost taxpayers $760 billion over the next decade. but the head of the congressional black caucus says

she doesn't believe there is $30 billion of waste in this program. >> tell them to show it to me. i would love to see it. even say anything. but where is the data? the food stamp program is one of the most effectively run programs in the entire u.s. government. let them show me the fraud or the waste or the abuse and i would be happy to work with them to cut it out. >> supporters of the measure say food stamps are supposed to be a temporary program. this legislation will likely do well in the house. it is a much heavier lift in the senate for john thune. megyn. >> megyn: thank you. joining me to discuss it, david webb, radio talk show host and host of "the david webb show." julie, fox news contributor and former political advisor to frank loutenberg. marsha fudge said that 30% cut that, means 30% more on snap now, welfare -- food stamps, will find themselves hungry. nts will not know what to do

with their children! and on she goes. all they want to do is cut out the waste that leads people to spend their food stamps on cigarettes. they did an end around to use it for liquor, we're told, and there was a report by our own eric shaun not long ago, talked about in some instance, converting it into cash and using it in casinos. >> if the sequester was in place, they would say planes are going to fall out of the sky and land on kids on snap. there are two issues that need to be put together. we have an institutional issue with the waste and fraud and the lobbying. this is worth hundreds of millions of dollars in ebt, transaction charges. there is -- >> megyn: a little card they carry. >> the two largest processors of this. this is why we have over $74 billion nightmare. then we have the american beverage association. this is supplemental nutrition assistance.

cigarettes are not nutritional assistance. a lot of the foods on there are are lobbies for so they can sell product. this is about using the system. that's the systemic problem. >> megyn: it was designed to give low income families access to nutritious and healthy foods. >> megyn: right. but then you add the waste and fraud. in florida they've done a number of shall a we say stings where they go out. there are people that go into stores and just simply transact and give them the cash. waste and fraud is there. >> megyn: that's how you can buy liquor 'cause quite now you can't use it to buy liquor. but if you can swipe your card and get cash back, then you can get whatever you want. >> first, you're not allowed to spend it on liquor, ipads or anything else. >> megyn: you are allowed cigarettes. >> you're not allowed. any of those vices, so-called, even hot food, even food you eat in store you're not allowed to buy. so i can't go to whole foods and buy -- in the of rosiesry chicken. >> you can't do it, not allowed. >> megyn: that's crazy. >> first and foremost, if you

have people abusing the system and using their ebt cards, do that, that's not a problem with the food stamp program, that's a problem with enforcement and crooks. however, if you're looking at this as a food stamp problem and you want to cut $30 billion or whatever you want to cut from food stamps, that's going to go to the meat of the matter. that's go to cut really to the bone for a lot of these people who are dependent on it, you can't say there is billions of dollars of waste and fraud here. you got 76% of the people on food stamps today are either kids or disabled or seniors. >> no. your numbers are wrong. >> megyn: david, is it possible to regulate bad behavior in this way? i know that it was designed, again, to give low income families access to nutrition and healthy food. but do you feel at all like mayor bloomberg and saying you shouldn't be able to use it at the corner store because the corner store doesn't sell healthy food and all people buy there is the full sugar coca-colas. >> right. first of all, this isn't about hurting the poor. in fact, if you make it a

morsellent program by weeding out these programs, you can help those that need it. the 46 that are on snap, and the fact that it's over -- julie, you obviously didn't study this because your numbers are wrong. we did a special on this on "hannity" on this industry and what it is. what we have here is the ability to -- think of your atm card, you can process a transaction, the bank knows what you did, it tells you are your balance, charges you a family you can program ebt cards not to accept goods and by the way, one of the -- >> megyn: what do you mean? >> in other words, you can't buy cigarettes if you swipe it. >> megyn: i see. they can control this if they want this. >> they can control it electronically. very possible. on top of that, what they also do is they don't get nutrition the right way in how they portion the foods. you can buy off what's called offbrands, which have gotten a lot better of, say, a box cereal and get more out of this than that brand at a higher cost.

therefore more food for the family. >> megyn: let me just say something to contradict my own question to david. mayor bloomberg was trying to regulate folks who were paying out of pocket for what they want, you know. this is the federal gives and it can set limits on what it gives and so why shouldn't they be more aguesssive about guarding their -- they're giving our money. why shouldn't they be more aggressive about saying we're sorry, but we're not going to allow to you transfer it into cash so that it gets used on alcohol or strip joints or casinos or cigarettes? >> you're talking about now is illegal already. people are doing it. >> megyn: we're not policing it. >> it shut be absolutely policed. we're talking about cutting money from the program. if you want to add money for enforcement, that's a whole other issue. i think the problem for a lot of these republicans is that they don't want the food stamp program to begin with in the first place. they are to eradicate it all together. >> completely false and i'll tell what you n let me finish my thought, david.

so at the end of the day, if you want to get rid of the food stamp program, you're going to look at fraud and waste. but there is absolutely trade and waste in every program, but you can not start cutting billions from people who truly need it. >> megyn: speak to that point. >> first of all, you're completely wrong inside about cutting off the program for people and by the way, every single time -- and you can look this up -- that the states that have wanted to limit what's being bought to nutritional program has brought it to the usda, 100% they have voted against doing this and shut the states down. julie is trying to make it a kids argument. we have problem with a systemic argument with waste and fraud, which is also completely wrong because you can go from state to state and find where they can buy products that should not be on the list that are not nutritional. you really ought to study the issue more. >> i really have, david. >> megyn: there is no reason to be mean. >> exactly. >> we have to be accurate. >> megyn: i got to go. agree to disagree. thank you both.

coming up, is our government hoarding ammo in order to keep it away from regular law abiding gun owners like you? that's the fear from a growing group of gun owners. what they're trying to do to stop it. that's next [ male announcer ] this is kevin.

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>> megyn: new video just in, former south african president nelson mandela, jacob zuma says he found him in good shape and in good spirits. this video shows him looking a little frail, but they say he's doing better, at least. 94 years old. it's been more than three weeks since mr. mandela was released after a ten-day stint in the hospital. the third time in five months he has been hospitalized for a recurring lung infection. washington, a pair of republican senators introducing a bill that would limit the

amount of ammunition the government can buy. they are accusing the obama administration of hoarding large quantities of ammo to keep it out of the hands of law-abiding gun owners. trace gallagher with more. not very interesting when we deliver the news this way. >> 1 point -- >> megyn: wait, wait. can you start over because we didn't have your mic on. it's fun watching you talk. start now. >> here we go. just for the context, the department of homeland security is allowed to buy 1.2 billion rounds of ammunition every five years. that's for 90 different departments now. okay? they are spending as little bit ahead this year than last year, but now oklahoma, republican senator, james inhofe and oklahoma's gop congressman lucas are pushing legislation that would limit how much ammo the feds can buy because they believe this is a back doorway

by the obama administration to curb second amendment rights saying, and i'm quoting here, one way the obama administration is able to do this is by limiting what's available in the market with federal agencies purchasing unnecessary stockpiles of ammunition. massachusetts, democratic congressman john tyranny says this is in response to conspiracy theories about government stockpiling bullets to prepare for civil war saying, quote, to the extent that we're responding to conspiracy theories or whatever, i think we're really wasting everybody's time on that. now, the hill newspaper came out saying that the national rifle association actually agrees with congressman tierny. so we called the nra to make sure they are agreeing with him and so far they have not gotten back to with us a comment. but we can tell you lawmakers say their constituents in texas, arizona, in oklahoma, and in nebraska, among other states, have all complained that they

are finding a shortage of ammunition on store shelves and now these oklahoma lawmakers are planning to do something about it. >> megyn: all right. trace gallagher, thank you. it is better when you can hear him. i knew it. we've got a pair of remarks now coming in from eric holier. we are going to talk with our panel, jay and julian in moments, about mr. holder's comment over the weekend that it was this magistrate judge who effectively decided when this guy, tsarnaev, was going to be mirandized and seemed to put the blame on her for the f.b.i. interrogation getting cut short. this is just coming in about a presser that he held telling americans they better not retaliate against anyone in the wake of the boston bombings. and talked about incidents involving threats and acts of vandalism targeting muslims after 9-11. now apparently feels the need to

warn americans that they better not step outside the lines in the wake of boston. is this appropriate? is this what we need to be hearing from our attorney general? this is what he should be focused on right now? we'll have a fair and balanced debate on that next. also we'll have this for you. in life he faces his own legal problems. in death, he's at the center of yet another dramatic trial, one with his fortune at stake. the brand-new developments in the michael jackson wrongful death lawsuit [ kate ] many women may not be absorbing the calcium they take as well as they could because they don't take it with food. switch to citracal maximum plus d.

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♪ >> megyn: fox news alert. new remarks earlier today from attorney general eric holder about the boston bombings which are already making news. this is just coming in to us. we're trying to turn the tape for you so you can hear it from the man himself. but before the antidefamation league today, he promised to hold accountable those responsible for the bombings, but went on to say, quote, just as we will pursue relentlessly anyone who would target our people or attempt to troughize our cities, theious department is committed to protecting innocent people against misguided acts of retaliation. and there is more. let me bring in our panel. julian epstein, former chief counsel for the house judiciary committee and former staff director for the house government reform committee. and jay sekulow, chief counsel for the american center for law

and justice. he we know on to say -- went on to say -- he didn't mention the fact that these two are muslim that have been killed or arrested in con boston. but he went on to talk about in the dozen years since 9-11, they've investigated more than 800 incidents involving threats, assaults and acts of vandalism against muslims and others who are members of these groups. as americans, we must not allow any group to be stigma advertised or tolerate acts of hatred. then he goes on to say, let us resolve once more to help our fellow citizens meet fear with reason. this is how we will honor the victims of the boston marathon bombings. let us confront ignorance with information. divert suspicious or prejudice gazes with outstretched hands. jay, if you take those remarks and put them on paper and just disconnect them to the boston marathon bombings, they're not controversial at all.

but to have the attorney general of the united states get up and focus on backlash against muslims, has there been backlash against muslims in the wake of boston? is this a time for the attorney general to be effectively scolding americans, not to be bigoted and not to be ignorant? >> megyn, the attorney general of the united states needs to do us all a favor. catch the terrorists. that's what he needs to be doing. catch the terrorists and don't allow individuals to be mirandized after only 16 hours of interrogation. an individual that we know had the bomb and put it next to an eight-year-old kid. these statements that the attorney general made, which like you said, no one is going to argue with this as far as contextually. when you put it in the context of what the country is going through right now and the leads that came from russia and the complete intelligence failure that has taken place here, the attorney general getting onto platitude may make for a good sound bite, but it's not very good policy right now in the midst of what we're in.

i think what he needs to be concentrate on is what he talked about in 2010, which is how to get better interrogation tech uniques and not maybe declaring this individual a criminal defendant. >> megyn: we're going to get to that point. julian, he's speaking to the antidefamation league, who fights anti-semitism and he's lecturing that group on how they can't be bigoted and we can't be ignorant and can't have a backlash against muslims. the context could be perceived by some to be somewhat offensive, that the attorney general is perceiving the folks in front of him or others in this country are now getting ready to put on their bigoted clothes and go out there and exercise their ignorance as opposed to expressing outrage at the fact that we were attacked by two guys who apparently are followers of radical islam. >> no, i don't think anybody in the antidefamation league is looking at it that way. i would think you and jay would applaud what the attorney general said. it is frequent after these kinds

of attacks that you get all kinds of reprisals and vigil antidisestablishmentarianism from very bigoted individuals who wasn't to exercise some type of pretricks and that is the most unamerican thing we could possibly think of. muslims in this country overwhelmingly are patriotic americans. they want to be part of the community and when we start saying it's fine to have open season on them -- >> megyn: who is saying that? >> no one is saying that. >> that you are saying it. this is the point, when the attorney general, the chief law enforcement officer of the united states says this is not going to be tolerated, he is saying by the fact that he's not remaining silent, when i'm sure there are lots of reports, he's saying it's the most unamerican and unpatriotic response we can have to this action. >> megyn: i'm sure there are -- listen, i don't pretend -- let me just say, i don't pretend to have read every single article and know every incident that's been reported to the doj, but i haven't seen a lot of focus or

any really news stories focused on threats against muslims. >> it is very common after these incidents that you have the large numbers of threats against muslims, innocent law-abiding muslim citizens. it's very important for the attorney general not to remain silent and to jay's point, there is nothing remotely inconsistent about standing up for something that is fundamentally american like that and prosecuting the terrorists at the same time. there is nothing about these two things at odds with each other. >> except we mirandized the terrorists and so he's not talking. >> that's another subject. that's another subject, jay. you want to debate that? >> megyn: i do, because that is also newsworthy. eric holder this week caught on camera at the white house correspondents dinner was asked about just -- so our viewers know, the terror suspect was mirandized, he got taken in friday night. and then on sunday they filed a criminal complaint against him, and then on monday, a magistrate judge went over there and the

judge read him his rights. okay. then he stopped talking, according to the f.b.i so eric holder was asked about that because the question was, lawmakers, we had mike rogers on the show just on friday who said, that was done by the magistrate. she concocted this idea when she was watching the news coverage on saturday saying, he needs miranda. i'm calling up some federal prosecutor. but she can't force the doj to file a complaint and she has no jurisdiction over the case until the doj gets a complaint filed. so they did it. and opening the door for her to go in and do what she did. so it's not -- you can't listen to eric holder saying we don't have anything to do with it because he does. but listen, in the that context, here is what he said about the whole magistrate judge mirandising the suspect on saturday night. listen. >> the decision to mirandise him is one that the magistrate made and that was totally consistent with the laws that we have. we had a two-day period that we were a i believe to question him under the public safety exemption. so i think everything was done appropriately and we got good

leads. >> megyn: jay? >> first of all, he should have never filed those charges so quickly because the federal government here, the executive branch is doing an investigation. by filing those charges, you're letting the judiciary come in and take over your investigation by reading the miranda rights. there was a u.s. attorney present, as well as, which is interesting here -- a u.s. attorney and a public defender. so ask yourself this question: two things, number one, if we would have declared him a enemy combatant, none of this would have happened, two, even if you utilized the public safety exception, we know at a minimum it goes for 48 hours. they only got -- you said this in an earlier segment in broadcast, 16 hours. and as soon as we read him his rights what, did he do? stopped talking. the attorney general can say we got great leads, wonderful. are they in russia, because we had a lot of leads in russia that we didn't follow up on. i think he made a fundamental mistake by rush not guilty and filing the charges. >> megyn: i just want to tell our viewers, there is a debate about how long you get to

question the suspect under that public safety exception. it's interesting to hear the attorney general say it's two days because most folks who looked at this say it's as long as the threat is imminent and that could be 48 hours. it could be shorter than that. depends on the case. but he's saying it's two days. but the f.b.i. is saying, we only got 16 hours, 'cause it's not like they just took him to a jail cell. he was shot in the neck. they're saying we only had 16 hours, which isn't two days, julian. there seems to be a discrepancy between how the f.b.i. feels about this and how the attorney general does. >> lot of issues to unpack. there is a limited amount of time to how long you can hold someone without filing charges. it may be worth going back and looking at whether they needed to file charges as quickly as they did. but the central issue comes down to whether or not there is this guy can be treated as an enemy combatant. >> megyn: for pretrial purposes only. everybody agrees. >> not everybody. >> megyn: lindsey graham and all

the lawmakers -- no, they're not shifting. lindsey graham said that many times. he said -- >> he's been consistent. >> megyn: lindsey graham said he specifically put the language into the resolution saying if you're an american, you get tried in federal court. but that doesn't answer the question of how you are treated initially upon arrest. >> so if you were going through the federal civilian system, then go by the federal civilian rules. there may be an argument that you could have welled up filing charges against hip, there may be an argument whether you can exercise the public safety exception. the justice department had a very broad interpretation to how long that exception is involved for. but in terms of going through the civilian system, again, the military commission's act to lindsey graham's point in 2009 said that enemy combatants cannot be designated for nonu.s. citizens or at least the use of the military -- >> that's not correct. he signed the bill that says you can be an enemy combatant.

>> megyn: i got to run. i can't leave to -- i got to ask you, jay. eric holder says, and we got good leads. on the heels of the f.b.i. coming out and saying, valuable intelligence was left on the floor and we were shut down from per suing it! -- pursuing it! >> right, as we didn't follow up what came from russia initial complete the subsequent issues there, i think that's the problem. that's why the classification was wrong at the start of this. >> megyn: wow. >> i just disagree with that. anybody that watches tv knows about the miranda rulings. >> this isn't a made for tv show. >> the point is, jay, people know about it. what we've seen in the past is even with terrorists you get a skillful investigator. they may shut up, but they get them to talk. i think you're ignoring the past history case, jay. i think -- >> megyn: i got to run. we're coming up on a hard break. there's a lot more to discuss

and we'll have you on at another time. thank you both. we appreciate it. up next, meet the new suspect charged today with sending those ricin-laced letters to president obama and others in the most bizarre story of the day

>> megyn: kelly's court is back in session. on the docket, trouble ahead for the feds, possibly in the ricin case, as a new suspect, james everett dutschke, has just gotten out of court. he was in and out in his orange jump suit charged with sending

poisonous letters to the president, a senator and judge. he's being held pursuant to the judge's order just now, without bond on grounds that he could be a danger to the community or could try to run. last week, crews in haz-mat suits searched his home, business and cars. he is a neighbor of the original suspect in the case, paul kevin curtis. the elvis impersonator who saw the charges against him brought and dropped within a week amid contentions he was framed. dutschke is said to be a rival of mr. curtis, but insists he did not hold any grudges against curtis or anybody else. here is what he said to us after curtis was released. >> my family knows i don't have anything to do with this. the people that actually know me know i don't have anything to do with this. and quite frankly, the people that don't know that this is just crazy. this is just insane. >> megyn: wow. insane and crazy are words you may hear again if and when

mr. dutschke faces a trial in this case. joining me to discuss it, a defense attorney and mark, defense attorney. so that's my question, david. if i'm representing mr. dutschke, i'm going to go in there and say only a madman would try to kill the president of the united states, a u.s. senator, and a state court judge because he's ticked off at his elvis impersonator neighbor. >> i got to tell you, they must have something. they searched his home and apparently they found an indicator or many indicators that he had possessed, produced and sent the ricin. the first gentleman, paul curtis, they devonly had to -- definitely had it wrong on him. they may not have had probable cause. he came in and basically was in court because there was a letter that had his sort of phraseology, had his initials saying, i am kc and i approve of this letter, so they took him in. but to their credit -- they had

urgent circumstances, so i understand them taking him in quickly 'cause this was a threat on the life of the president of the united states and a federal judge. but to their credit, they released him quickly and i think they feel they've got the right guy now. but we'll have to wait and see. >> megyn: sure, they do believe that, mark. i had a ricin expert on the set here last week while they will the elvis guy in jail and say how does a man who may not be fully there, mentally, i don't know how they put it, but something like he has bipolar disorder. i can't remember what it was, but there were some mental issues, who makes his living as an elvis impersonator, make a poison that can kill the president of the united states, ricin in his living room? well, unlike curtis, dutschke's apparently is actually a member of mensa. john roberts validated that. >> that's going to help. what's going to really hurt, which david did not talk about, is if this case proceeds to trial, the defense lawyers are going to argue the same investigators who believed

suspect number two is guilty beyond a annual doubt are the same ones who convinced the elvis impersonator was guilty, so much so -- >> megyn: that's where we're going to pick it up right after this break. don't go away

he was saying they're going to face trouble convicting this man because they already arrested and then released another man for the crime. >> that's right. in the first instance they throw away the elvis impersonator. they say we've got our guy. he sings jailhouse rock, and then they seven his house and is ex-would wife's house, but they let him go imagine what the defense attorneys are going to do on cross. they'll say you felt the same thing with my client, you believed you had probable cause wait a few weeks maybense.

you'll have another suspect. >> how big a problem is that for the practicing's case, david? they charged somebody else initially. >> curtis' comment upon being released was thank you, thank you very much. to arrest you just need a standard of probable cause, which is a very low standard. you have the president's life at stake, aford judge's life at stake, and that why they arrested him immediately to convict youd in to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, and they did not go for that. they -- >> here's what dutschke says about the first guy who was arrested. >> just simply blows my mind that the paranoid antigovernment schizophrenic, is the one that

wraps up me, who is in his fantasy world, who is a patriotic american. >> megyn: he was mentally ill, the other guy. go ahead, mark. >> can't you see the argument now? the defense lawyers are going to call the lead detective, who is going to try to justify why he believed it was suspect number one who guilty, and those reasons that he is going to give, so he doesn't look so bad, will be the reason the defense will say my guy was framed like the mona lisa. >> see you later. [ male announcer ] this is kevin.

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>> thanking for walking. >> shepard: the news begins anew. the search for a killer who stabbed a little girl. the victim, eight years old. now a warning to everybody in the investigation to keep the doors locked. >> the united nations has a team ready to send to syria within 4 to 48 hours. the white house revealed it may have some evidence that syria used chemical weapons. now more lawmakers are calling for the u.s. to intervene. a first for major sports in our country. a current nba player has now come out of the closet, admitting he is gay, and the reaction is already blowing up online. that's all ahead unless breaking news changes everything on